[Bicepeak]

I have been keeping my eye on Scion as an alternative. I am liking a lot of things about the new IM. I like that it has the features of the EX HR-V at the price of an LX.
It is not a CUV, but if the seating is high, it might work for me. It is more like a station wagon only having 42 cu ft with the seats down as opposed to the HR-Vs 58 cu ft. That, and the lower rear opening height are drawbacks. Haven't determined how the front passenger seat will recline yet.


I am kind of discouraged that Murtha is trying to quash speculation that the 3rd new model will be a CUV. I think it would be a big mistake if it wasn't. Would be perfect for Scion to offer the smaller Toyota CUV. He said we won't have long to see what it will be.


http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/new-scion-models-reflect-demographic-fine-tuning


The other car that has caught my eye is the Hyundai Tucson. I will wait and see what that is like when it goes on display.


Waiting has it's advantages giving us time to see how the HR-V performs.

 

[Okhick]

Good for you keeping an open mind. There are lots of new models coming out all the time , all with their own strong points.

I've been on the site talking up the CX-3, but if I am honest there are any number of small hatchbacks with similar or greater capabilities ( if you don't need awd and I don't) on the market or soon to be released. Best not to become emotionally attached and loose your logic when there so many to choose from.

 

[2009legacy]

I have been keeping my eye on Scion as an alternative. I am liking a lot of things about the new IM. I like that it has the features of the EX HR-V at the price of an LX.
It is not a CUV, but if the seating is high, it might work for me. It is more like a station wagon only having 42 cu ft with the seats down as opposed to the HR-Vs 58 cu ft. That, and the lower rear opening height are drawbacks. Haven't determined how the front passenger seat will recline yet.


I am kind of discouraged that Murtha is trying to quash speculation that the 3rd new model will be a CUV. I think it would be a big mistake if it wasn't. Would be perfect for Scion to offer the smaller Toyota CUV. He said we won't have long to see what it will be.


http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/new-scion-models-reflect-demographic-fine-tuning


The other car that has caught my eye is the Hyundai Tucson. I will wait and see what that is like when it goes on display.


Waiting has it's advantages giving us time to see how the HR-V performs.

I would stay away from Hyndai/Kia products. My wife had a 2005 Kia Sportage.Great ride! poor reliability and TERRIBLE dealerships/customer service.YOU have to go by the book for service.U HAVE to get things serviced at certain MILEAGE intervals so they will honor THEIR warrenty,even if the vehicle is running fine at the time.

 

[scooterct]

>> I would stay away from Hyndai/Kia products.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really a good thing to base your decision on. That includes Legacy's warning about Kia, and it also includes the praise I'm about to heap on Kia. These are both the experiences of a single buyer of a single car of a single dealership.

I've had a 2010 Kia Soul+ for 90,000 miles and 5+ years. Love it to death. Rock solid reliability. Great dealership experience. Incredible value for the money, and the new Soul is dramatically better than mine. I've had the same storage space as the HRV in a car that has the same dimensions (edit: the Soul has the same storage area in a car 6" shorter) and performance almost to the inch and pound, and I've enjoyed it for 5 years and counting. I guess Kia should sue Honda for such a blatant copy?

So there you have it. One person hates Kia, another loves it. You can repeat with any auto manufacturer, and it's meaningless until you collect large numbers of experiences.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=iqs&story=iqsBrand&referer=&year=

Now having slammed anecdotal evidence, how about we look at some real numbers? Go to the link above. You'll see Honda does in fact hammer down Kia in initial quality. These are 2012 numbers. You'll see Honda has 83 problems per 100 vehicles delivered, Kia has 107. So Honda definitely does better in initial quality at delivery time. In fact, even with the quality problems of the recent years, Honda is still one of the better rated manufacturers.

Be careful interpreting those quality results. They aren't necessarily fenders falling off. The majority of initial quality complaints these days are for infotainment systems. In fact, I have a friend who's about to return his incredibly awesome Mazda 3 Grand Touring hatchback because he doesn't like that it doesn't remember what song it was playing when he left the car (not making that up).


PS: In a very real sense, I'm the first person on this forum to own a Honda HRV. It just happens to be called the Kia Soul+, and it came out of its mother's womb a bit homely.

PS: I don't work for Kia.

PS: I'm still gonna test drive the HRV, and it's still 1 or 2 on my list. So I'm not a Honda or HRV hater.

 

[Ex-cape]

I think Scion should market an "outdoor-oriented" SUV based off the RAV4, and styled like a scaled-down FJ-Cruiser. It doesn't need all of the FJ's capability, just some rugged styling and good utility (think Element). It would be an excellent competitor to the (non-Trailhawk) Renegade.
Oh, and it must be available with a manual. And tow.

 

[Bicepeak]

I think Scion should market an "outdoor-oriented" SUV based off the RAV4, and styled like a scaled-down FJ-Cruiser. It doesn't need all of the FJ's capability, just some rugged styling and good utility (think Element). It would be an excellent competitor to the (non-Trailhawk) Renegade.
Oh, and it must be available with a manual. And tow.

Sounds good.......especially if it has good cargo space, I will go for it.
Maybe that is why Murtha is so mum about it. Maybe he doesn't think the term CUV will describe adequately what they are planning.

 

[scooterct]

In the mid-90s, we had the original AWD RAV4 2-door with manual and loved it. It was compact, decent little bit of storage, perfect car for two people.

Well, we loved it until it started dangerously lurching on cold days. Two transmissions and a clutch later, the Toyota dealer threw up their hands and gave up (we'd been charged $2,000 in parts and labor by that point). In the end, we discovered it was a bad oxygen sensor.

American auto mechanics can't diagnose their way out of a paper bag. I so miss Germany, where the guy charging you 60 DM an hour was actually worth it...

 

[Nolan Yacht]

Me Too!

The other car that has caught my eye is the Hyundai Tucson. I will wait and see what that is like when it goes on display.

I'm in the exact same boat as you! The new Tucson is supposed to go on sale in July. Some personally exciting news for me with the Tucson is that it has a new color called SEDONA SUNSET. I'm hoping that will be a shade of ORANGE.

I'm looking forward to finally getting to see and drive the new HR-V. Hopefully it will be within two days as that's the date I was given as to when they are supposed to be arriving.

If for any reason there is a doubt or hesitation that the HR-V is the vehicle for me, I'll hit the pause button on purchasing one and wait long enough for the Tucson to come out.

The Tucson is looking to be a viable alternative. It's even got the power driver seat w/ power lumber available in the base model as an option package(the 2015 model is around $700 for the package). Pricing will hopefully stay close to the 2015 model as they want to be competitive and give the top sellers like the Escape, RAV4 and CR-V a run for their money.

 

[idearat]

I'm in a slightly different boat from the rest. We're a pretty minimalistic, childless couple in a city condo, walk most places, and have always had one small car (not including my 50cc scooter, which I ride to work... a pleasant 15-minute commute). We've had a lot of hondas, currently a little Acura, and I've missed the old practical hatches for years. I've thought about the Fit, but can't learn to love the looks. Never considered anything that could even remotely be considered an SUV. Love my manual transmission.

Enter the HRV. As long as I remember it's still a small car, and consider it a tall-ish hatch, I'm thinking it could be the one... always, of course pending seeing it in person and the test drive.

I have some purely emotional biases against some brands, and concerns about others. I've always loved the conservative, practical, euro vibe from VW, specifically Golf and even Tiguan (though I'd rather it was a bit smaller, and doesn't come with a manual tranny), but concerned about reliability. The Soul has always intrigued me, love the size and practicality, and Scooter has me thinking it's worth a close look... not sure my hesitation about Hyundai / Kia is still valid. Not interested in spending a bunch more for the likes of X1 / Q3 / GLA / CDX etc.

So for me, the only plausible competitors are the Golf, Mazda 3 and maybe CX3, though I don't love Kodo, possibly Soul or Elantra, just maybe Tucson if it's not too big... have to see one. I'm really hoping the HRV works out... or I might just hang on another year.

 

[mwd]

Along with the hrv I'm looking at the rogue and cx-5. I like the look of the up and coming tuscan, but like others I can't get into buying a Hyundai/kia.

 

[Okhick]

IMO The Koreans build competitive products, State of the art, nicely assembled and reliable. The depreciation looks scary untill you get to a dealer and realize the huge up front discounts offered. I'll look at the new Tusan.

 

[scooterct]

>>I can't get into buying a Hyundai/kia

When it comes time to buy my wife's car this summer or fall, after she's driven them all and decided what she likes/dislikes, I'll hand her a deal sheet. The deal sheet will probably say something like this, for identically equipped cars...

1. Honda HRV - $23,000

2. Kia Soul+ - $18,000 and $5,000 cash for you to spend as you see fit.

I get the fear of Kias. There was a time back in the day when I shared it. They used to offer a 100,000 mile warranty just to get people in the door. They were widely derided as falling apart a block from the dealership. Times change. I'm old enough to remember when Japanese products were the laughing stock of the USA, and Hondas were goofy looking little death traps that ensured you couldn't get a date.

So maybe if you think about what you could spend that $5,000 on, you might suddenly find yourself more able to get into Kia?

Oh, and if spouse says "HRV for me", that's what she gets!

 

[CdnColin]

>>I can't get into buying a Hyundai/kia

When it comes time to buy my wife's car this summer or fall, after she's driven them all and decided what she likes/dislikes, I'll hand her a deal sheet. The deal sheet will probably say something like this, for identically equipped cars...

1. Honda HRV - $23,000

2. Kia Soul+ - $18,000 and $5,000 cash for you to spend as you see fit.

I get the fear of Kias. There was a time back in the day when I shared it. They used to offer a 100,000 mile warranty just to get people in the door. They were widely derided as falling apart a block from the dealership. Times change. I'm old enough to remember when Japanese products were the laughing stock of the USA, and Hondas were goofy looking little death traps that ensured you couldn't get a date.

So maybe if you think about what you could spend that $5,000 on, you might suddenly find yourself more able to get into Kia?

Oh, and if spouse says "HRV for me", that's what she gets!

Not sure how many North American made vehicles are shipped to Korea but I would suggest we are getting the short end of the stick. There are many barriers to free trade with Korea. I'm all for significant duties on Korean cars.
Having said that they do make some nice products. We shouldn't feel too abused. I have travelled to Korea many times and you don't see too many Japanese cars either.
If there is no North American content in a vehicle I'm not interested. But that's just me. My Pilot, including the engine, was produced in N.A.

 

[JerseyPirate]

I've had a KIA Optima EX for about 3 years now and will pass 60k miles this week. It's been a great car. I was a little worried when I bought it but I couldn't pass up all the features I got for only $22k. Leather, power seat, dual automatic climate control, auto dimming mirror and tons of room.

I just want to sit higher up and have manual transmission now. I would recommend the Optima to anyone looking for a reliable 4 door sedan at a compact price.

 

[scooterct]

>> I have travelled to Korea many times

We have something in common. As an USAF C-130 navigator, I visited Korea often. Yup, they're amazingly protectionist. And the US govt definitely winks and doesn't notice because of our special relationship. On the other hand, they sell us lots of $20,000 cars, and we sell them more than a few $50,000,000 fighter jets...

 

[jim-b]

We'll have to see how Honda's rating with J.D Powers changes with the influx of Mexican made vehicles. From a quality stand point, if I can't have a Japanese made car , I think I would prefer a Korean made car over a Mexican made one.

 

[shereral]

$5000 cash back on soul???

I don't really get the $5000 cash back thing. I don't see that anywhere online?????? I see one dealership offering discounts like that, but I do not see ANYWHERE hat says, "get $5000 cash in your pocket."

 

[Werechull]

>> I would stay away from Hyndai/Kia products.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really a good thing to base your decision on. That includes Legacy's warning about Kia, and it also includes the praise I'm about to heap on Kia. These are both the experiences of a single buyer of a single car of a single dealership.

I've had a 2010 Kia Soul+ for 90,000 miles and 5+ years. Love it to death. Rock solid reliability. Great dealership experience. Incredible value for the money, and the new Soul is dramatically better than mine. I've had the same storage space as the HRV in a car that has the same dimensions (edit: the Soul has the same storage area in a car 6" shorter) and performance almost to the inch and pound, and I've enjoyed it for 5 years and counting. I guess Kia should sue Honda for such a blatant copy?

So there you have it. One person hates Kia, another loves it. You can repeat with any auto manufacturer, and it's meaningless until you collect large numbers of experiences.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=iqs&story=iqsBrand&referer=&year=

Now having slammed anecdotal evidence, how about we look at some real numbers? Go to the link above. You'll see Honda does in fact hammer down Kia in initial quality. These are 2012 numbers. You'll see Honda has 83 problems per 100 vehicles delivered, Kia has 107. So Honda definitely does better in initial quality at delivery time. In fact, even with the quality problems of the recent years, Honda is still one of the better rated manufacturers.

Be careful interpreting those quality results. They aren't necessarily fenders falling off. The majority of initial quality complaints these days are for infotainment systems. In fact, I have a friend who's about to return his incredibly awesome Mazda 3 Grand Touring hatchback because he doesn't like that it doesn't remember what song it was playing when he left the car (not making that up).


PS: In a very real sense, I'm the first person on this forum to own a Honda HRV. It just happens to be called the Kia Soul+, and it came out of its mother's womb a bit homely.

PS: I don't work for Kia.

PS: I'm still gonna test drive the HRV, and it's still 1 or 2 on my list. So I'm not a Honda or HRV hater.

I enjoyed your post and feel the same way about my Vibe that you do about your Soul. However, 90k trouble-free miles isn't the longevity I'm looking for. I expect closer to 200k trouble-free miles. I know Kia and Hyundai (they really shouldn't be grouped together, but whatever) have made a lot of progress, but I don't trust Kia all the way to 200k yet.

As for my anecdotal evidence, my Vibe has over 170k with no costs other than oil, tires, breaks, belt, and a transmission flush.

 

[Werechull]

I don't really get the $5000 cash back thing. I don't see that anywhere online?????? I see one dealership offering discounts like that, but I do not see ANYWHERE hat says, "get $5000 cash in your pocket."

The $5000 referred to in the earlier post wasn't any sort of dealer incentive. It's just how much you save buying a Soul instead of an HRV (per the post's numbers).

 

[mwd]

I'm in a slightly different boat from the rest. We're a pretty minimalistic, childless couple in a city condo, walk most places, and have always had one small car (not including my 50cc scooter, which I ride to work... a pleasant 15-minute commute). We've had a lot of hondas, currently a little Acura, and I've missed the old practical hatches for years. I've thought about the Fit, but can't learn to love the looks. Never considered anything that could even remotely be considered an SUV. Love my manual transmission.

Enter the HRV. As long as I remember it's still a small car, and consider it a tall-ish hatch, I'm thinking it could be the one... always, of course pending seeing it in person and the test drive.

I have some purely emotional biases against some brands, and concerns about others. I've always loved the conservative, practical, euro vibe from VW, specifically Golf and even Tiguan (though I'd rather it was a bit smaller, and doesn't come with a manual tranny), but concerned about reliability. The Soul has always intrigued me, love the size and practicality, and Scooter has me thinking it's worth a close look... not sure my hesitation about Hyundai / Kia is still valid. Not interested in spending a bunch more for the likes of X1 / Q3 / GLA / CDX etc.

So for me, the only plausible competitors are the Golf, Mazda 3 and maybe CX3, though I don't love Kodo, possibly Soul or Elantra, just maybe Tucson if it's not too big... have to see one. I'm really hoping the HRV works out... or I might just hang on another year.

What is your concern with the vw?