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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks, I feel like I've read just about every thread in the forum wheel section, but I haven't found any mention of what the factory 17x7.5 +55 wheel weighs on its own. I'm looking to replicate the 16x7 215/70 wheel/tire setup that a few of you seem to be running with the nice Sparco wheels, but using a set of not-so-light old school Ford Probe wheels that I still have in my garage. They're 22 pounds each, but they're free to me since I already own them, and the dimensions are right. Just want to make sure I'm not going to be seriously overweight on the spinny stuff at each corner.
 

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If you are going to be installing much larger diameter, much heavier, All-terrain type tires on your 1st Gen HRV, wheel weight is not your issue!

Larger diameter, heavier tires are detrimental to the weak CVT transmission. I hope you have the 6 speed manual trans.

Are the Ford Probe wheels aluminum?
Are they the correct bolt pattern, hub diameter and offset?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
what do you consider 'seriously overweight' ?
this is not a HP vehicle so i do not think you could notice anything- if each wheel was a few # more etc.
Well, practically every car that I own gets an updated wheel/tire package because I firmly believe wheels/tires to be the most important part of a car- since that's the only part that touches the ground. That said, I try to keep the wheel/tire combo from exceeding the OEM weight. For most cars, I try to go lighter- but when increasing diameter and width, if it's not one of the sports cars- then staying the same weight overall is good. In this case, cost is starting to be a factor since I've bought 3 cars in 2 months (and sold one of them last week too), and multiple cars need new tires, so trying to pull from the wheel stash that's already in the garage.

"Seriously overweight" to me usually means significantly more than a pound per inch of wheel diameter. The 17x9s on my BRZ are 17 pounds, the OE RX-8 wheels going onto the wife's Miata are 17 pounds for a cast 16x7.5, and I'm looking at 11 pounds for 15x8 wheels on my CRX. I got lucky and specced out wheels for my truck that are 24 pounds for a 17x8.5, but those are truck load rated- and even though I went from 30s to 33s on the tire, I lost zero fuel economy. In the case of the HR-V, I think I've been reading around the forum that the stock wheel combo is something like 50-51 pounds? I've had the car less than a week and been pretty busy, so haven't had a chance to start pulling wheels and weighing stuff. To me 50-51 is heavy for a 26.3 inch diameter roller. I think I've seen some all-terrain type 215/70-16s get down into the 27-28 pound range, so with a 22 pound wheel that would come right up to 50 total again. I was hoping to get lighter, but for the HR-V this would probably be ok.

I mostly don't want to lose fuel economy when everything washes out with the taller gearing when doing the math at the pump every tank.

If you are going to be installing much larger diameter, much heavier, All-terrain type tires on your 1st Gen HRV, wheel weight is not your issue!

Larger diameter, heavier tires are detrimental to the weak CVT transmission. I hope you have the 6 speed manual trans.

Are the Ford Probe wheels aluminum?
Are they the correct bolt pattern, hub diameter and offset?
No automatics in this house! I drive only stick, wife drives only stick, son is gonna learn stick when he turns 15 in a few months. Definitely got the 6 speed manual. That's the only way to buy used cars that aren't sports cars... find the stick model and lowball away until you get the deal you want, because the dealership can't get rid of the stick car! Plus the car is much more engaging, cheaper to maintain, easier to pull a-hole shenanigans on the road etc. Long live the manual transmission! :D

Wheel Tire Automotive tire Vehicle Bicycle part


That's the wheel. Hopefully the image tag inserted ok- it's been a while since I've created full posts on forums. I think it'll look ok on the HR-V. Wheel is definitely aluminum. Full spec is 16x7 +40mm offset, 67.1mm hub bore so will definitely clear the factory 64.1mm on the HR-V. Bolt pattern is the correct 5x114.3. If I use this set, I'll grab a set of centering rings like these so everything is happy around the hub. Then all I have to do is do a quick refinish/paint and they'll look brand new, and mount everything up.

Automotive tire Rim Font Circle Bicycle part


Based on this thread it looks like 16x7 +40 and 215/70 will fit fine and give maximum wheel well fill at stock ride height with no rub.

I have a set of 15x6 +50 Mazda wheels that might fit over the brakes (they fit other cars where people swore 15s wouldn't fit). If they fit, I might try a set of 225/75s on to give it that supreme fat tire look.

Anyways, that's why I want to know the OEM weights- just to try and get an idea of where I'm landing with the planned wheel/tire setup in the next month or two, after I put new tires on the Miata, and after I put new tires on the truck. Good rubber is expensive $$$. If nobody knows the numbers, I guess I'll measure and provide to the forum too.

By the way CalgaryHRV, thanks for all your posts around the forum. You were in quite a few of the threads that I went through, and are also the reason why I'm trying to find a cheap set of RSX 16s. For some reason the prices in my area have spiked a good bit in the last few months- I used to see sets for $100-150!
 
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I'm with you on manual transmissions!

Other than our lame HRV, our other 3 vehicles have manual transmissions. Wifey's summer daily driver is a mildly modded, mildly lowered, 1st Gen 6speed manual TSX.

Good choice going with a manual trans HRV. The 1st Gen HRV CVT trans is terrible and has a high failure rate.

Sounds like you do have wheel tire skills!
The OEM 5 spoke HRV wheels are cheap cast China wheels, nothing lightweight about them.
I guess you could weigh your tire/wheel combo and then look up the tire weight on www.tirerack.com to get the wheel weight.
Go with aluminum hub centering rings, not plastic.

For a front wheel drive, 6 speed manual trans HRV, I would usually recommend to lower it and go with 18's and low profile performance tires but it sounds like you already have performance summer vehicles.
So that's why you are going with a taller all-terrain tire that will degrade on pavement handling?


What year and trim level HRV? You should create a signature to make it easier for everyone reading your posts.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm with you on manual transmissions!

Other than our lame HRV, our other 3 vehicles have manual transmissions. Wifey's summer daily driver is a mildly modded, mildly lowered, 1st Gen 6speed manual TSX.
Woo 1st gen manual TSX! Jelly! That's such a great car. Essentially an RSX Type-S with four doors and a trunk. One of my college buddies has one, and had to seek out another after he was hit and the car was totaled. Such a fun platform with SO much potential.

Good choice going with a manual trans HRV. The 1st Gen HRV CVT trans is terrible and has a high failure rate.
Hate hate hate CVTs. The only CVT car I would consider to buy is the Scion iQ, and that would just be to drive it for leg surgeries and then source all the manual parts from a LHD Euro country like France and convert it in my driveway. Love the platform, hate the transmission. I would never consider buying the HR-V with the CVT. I'm just lucky that I found our HR-V last week in the EX trim, so I could get all the options possible in a used manual HR-V. Having all the EX trimmings definitely made the wife happy. Stick meant the dealer put it at a lower price than the autos, and it has a slight bump on the driver's door that I'll have taken out with a paintless dent repair session, so hopefully that'll all have it looking mostly new. I can't argue with $14k for a 73k mile car with no issues other than a broken shift boot collar and a small bump on the door!

Also, manual transmission means less for the ECU to control/watch, and since Hondata and K-Tuner can never answer me straight on whether the Civic R18 flash setup will work for the HR-V, I might try something as dumb as an ECU swap to either a Civic or Fit module to see if I can play with the mapping on the good old R18. So much potential with that engine. I'd love to add some boost, but that's a totally different discussion that I won't litter the forum with (doesn't seem like much power talk in the threads here), and it's definitely something that has to wait for after the BRZ and Miata get some engine love. Yet another project for the shelf.

Sounds like you do have wheel tire skills!
The OEM 5 spoke HRV wheels are cheap cast China wheels, nothing lightweight about them.
I guess you could weigh your tire/wheel combo and then look up the tire weight on www.tirerack.com to get the wheel weight.
Thanks! I looked up the tires that are currently on the HR-V, which are the Falken Pro G5 All Seasons in 215/55-17. Discount Tire has them listed at 24 pounds, so assuming that the roller at one corner weighs 50 pounds total from the chattering in this forum (I'll weigh later when I'm not procrastinating on writing a proposal and project schedule), then the wheel is a hefty 26 pounds. That's a porker for a 17x7.5. The NC Miata 17x7s are a nice light 17 pounds, and they're not anything special other than just another aluminum casting.

I'll weigh the existing combo when I test fit the Probe wheel and the weird Mazda MPV 15s that I have. Maybe even the Jeep Wrangler 15s I have, but I don't think the face will clear the calipers. The MPV 15s have a really deep face coming off the center of the hub with some very scooped out spokes, so I think they may actually fit over the calipers. There's definitely enough space around the outside of the calipers facing the wheel hoop to clear a lot of 15 inch wheels. If they work, I'll have to clean and paint the wheels some kind of dark gunmetal color, because I think the spoke design doesn't quite look right with the squished jelly bean shape of the HR-V. Need to hide that shape. This is the Mazda MPV wheel:

Wheel Automotive tire Rim Material property Bicycle part



Go with aluminum hub centering rings, not plastic.
Always aluminum rings. Plastic is only good for the initial wheel installation. They're trash the first time you pull the wheels for a balance job.

For a front wheel drive, 6 speed manual trans HRV, I would usually recommend to lower it and go with 18's and low profile performance tires but it sounds like you already have performance summer vehicles.
So that's why you are going with a taller all-terrain tire that will degrade on pavement handling?
Yeah, pretty much. The daily/utility vehicles for me and my wife go upwards. Mine because it's a truck and I actually use it to run through nasty stuff and do trucky things, hers because Texas roads can really suck sometimes and she can run over bigger stuff on the highways with more sidewall and a bit more ground clearance. Both family cars tend to trek through some gross roads regularly, so more chunky tires are nice to have. I generally stick to P rated tires no matter what, even in all-terrains, because I don't want to deal with AT tire weight and AT sidewalls. I won't go rock crawling with the HR-V to an extent where I'd need a super heavy duty belted tire anyway, so it's also a matter of looks and just giving more capability to run through and do more stupid things than normal. I did take the Kia Soul through some pretty rocky trails in Big Bend national park before though, and I was surprised that the tires survived 20 miles of sharp rocks running 50mph through a 20mph "recommended" speed area, so there is that. Tire survival is partially dictated by good path finding through the nasty stuff too. :)

In my experience, there are quite a few all terrain tires that perform just as well or better in dry/wet pavement than quite a few "touring" class all-season tires. You just have to pick the right ones. No mud terrains or max traction tires need apply- those will definitely kill you on concrete. As far as 18s, I've avoided them so far on all my cars. The largest wheels I've had were 17x9s on the S2000 and BRZ, both wearing 255/40 tires. Tons of grip. The only reason for me to go to 18s now is because fitment in 5x100 bolt patterns isn't as varied as for 5x114.3 since really only the BRZ/FRS wear them- and I want to go to a wider wheel to support 275 or 285 section width tires for even more meaty rubbery goodness. Nobody makes a 17x10 in 5x100 fitment without burning several paychecks to get it. 18x10 is a bit easier to find.

What year and trim level HRV? You should create a signature to make it easier for everyone reading your posts.
2016 model year, EX trim. No EX-L available with a stick! I added profile and signature details since it looks like I'll be sticking around the forum a bit...
 
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Well, practically every car that I own gets an updated wheel/tire package because I firmly believe wheels/tires to be the most important part of a car- since that's the only part that touches the ground. That said, I try to keep the wheel/tire combo from exceeding the OEM weight. For most cars, I try to go lighter- but when increasing diameter and width, if it's not one of the sports cars- then staying the same weight overall is good. In this case, cost is starting to be a factor since I've bought 3 cars in 2 months (and sold one of them last week too), and multiple cars need new tires, so trying to pull from the wheel stash that's already in the garage.

"Seriously overweight" to me usually means significantly more than a pound per inch of wheel diameter. The 17x9s on my BRZ are 17 pounds, the OE RX-8 wheels going onto the wife's Miata are 17 pounds for a cast 16x7.5, and I'm looking at 11 pounds for 15x8 wheels on my CRX. I got lucky and specced out wheels for my truck that are 24 pounds for a 17x8.5, but those are truck load rated- and even though I went from 30s to 33s on the tire, I lost zero fuel economy. In the case of the HR-V, I think I've been reading around the forum that the stock wheel combo is something like 50-51 pounds? I've had the car less than a week and been pretty busy, so haven't had a chance to start pulling wheels and weighing stuff. To me 50-51 is heavy for a 26.3 inch diameter roller. I think I've seen some all-terrain type 215/70-16s get down into the 27-28 pound range, so with a 22 pound wheel that would come right up to 50 total again. I was hoping to get lighter, but for the HR-V this would probably be ok.

I mostly don't want to lose fuel economy when everything washes out with the taller gearing when doing the math at the pump every tank.



No automatics in this house! I drive only stick, wife drives only stick, son is gonna learn stick when he turns 15 in a few months. Definitely got the 6 speed manual. That's the only way to buy used cars that aren't sports cars... find the stick model and lowball away until you get the deal you want, because the dealership can't get rid of the stick car! Plus the car is much more engaging, cheaper to maintain, easier to pull a-hole shenanigans on the road etc. Long live the manual transmission! :D

View attachment 35197

That's the wheel. Hopefully the image tag inserted ok- it's been a while since I've created full posts on forums. I think it'll look ok on the HR-V. Wheel is definitely aluminum. Full spec is 16x7 +40mm offset, 67.1mm hub bore so will definitely clear the factory 64.1mm on the HR-V. Bolt pattern is the correct 5x114.3. If I use this set, I'll grab a set of centering rings like these so everything is happy around the hub. Then all I have to do is do a quick refinish/paint and they'll look brand new, and mount everything up.

View attachment 35198

Based on this thread it looks like 16x7 +40 and 215/70 will fit fine and give maximum wheel well fill at stock ride height with no rub.

I have a set of 15x6 +50 Mazda wheels that might fit over the brakes (they fit other cars where people swore 15s wouldn't fit). If they fit, I might try a set of 225/75s on to give it that supreme fat tire look.

Anyways, that's why I want to know the OEM weights- just to try and get an idea of where I'm landing with the planned wheel/tire setup in the next month or two, after I put new tires on the Miata, and after I put new tires on the truck. Good rubber is expensive $$$. If nobody knows the numbers, I guess I'll measure and provide to the forum too.

By the way CalgaryHRV, thanks for all your posts around the forum. You were in quite a few of the threads that I went through, and are also the reason why I'm trying to find a cheap set of RSX 16s. For some reason the prices in my area have spiked a good bit in the last few months- I used to see sets for $100-150!
Just get performance type tires as an upgrade for a street car - that is the first, and best, noticeable upgrade you can do.
 

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So a used 2016 Black EX HRV, 6 speed manual and front wheel drive.

The aluminum Ford Probe 16x7 +40mm offset wheels should fit fine with centering rings.
Of course, test fit the wheels on your HRV before buying any tires.
You likely will need conical lug nuts for the Ford wheels.

Our 16" RSX wheels barely clear the front calipers on our HRV. I highly doubt any 15" wheels will fit the HRV.

The only recalls that may apply to your HRV are the push button start/stop button and the fuel pump.
Likely both completed long ago.


Some low cost mods that I did on our used 2016 HRV:

  • deleted the air intake resonator
  • Drop in K&N air filter
  • deleted the exhaust resonator
  • bypass the throttle body coolant heater-
  • larger battery
  • Scangauge OBDII gauges
  • Civic larger engine cover

Next up is an underdrive crankshaft pulley, that no one makes.
I have a leather EX-L steering wheel that I have never installed.



My thread with details on our HRV over the years:

 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just get performance type tires as an upgrade for a street car - that is the first, and best, noticeable upgrade you can do.
Always! The BRZ is wearing Bridgestone S-04s, one of my favorite overall tires in recent years. Performance in the dry and wet is just phenomenal, it doesn't need to be heated up to stick, and the breakaway characteristics are very predictable. A bit much for the stock suspension though.

The S2000 had several sets of S-04s, a set of Hankook RS-3s, and a few sets of sacrificial Sumitomo HTRs that slid extremely well. My Civic wore nothing but S-03s, and it was neutral and sticky enough for me to actually glance over and watch the G-meter peg over 1.0G in long turns while still having enough presence of mind to keep adjusting vehicle attitude. I miss that car. My wife's Miata will get something a bit less aggressive since she needs a compromise tire that'll still behave in freezing temps a month or two each year, so it'll end up on some decent all-seasons that are still performance oriented once the car is aligned and the RX-8 wheels are refinished- but for now it's still sitting on the ancient trash runflat tires it came with from the dealership a month ago. I don't want to saddle her fun car with tires that don't round out in the winter.

So a used 2016 Black EX HRV, 6 speed manual and front wheel drive.
The aluminum Ford Probe 16x7 +40mm offset wheels should fit fine with centering rings.
Of course, test fit the wheels on your HRV before buying any tires.
You likely will need conical lug nuts for the Ford wheels.
Oh yeah of course, definitely going to test fit. I tend to just go buy wheels from Craigslist and FB Marketplace when I see good deals that might work on various cars in the fleet- so I'm always test fitting things. I think I paid $100 for the Probe wheels? Maybe less. They were going to go onto the Kia Soul, also to max out at 215/70 on the rubber. Rings are a definite must have, and have plenty of cone seat and bulge seat full lock sets ready to go for the HR-V. Always gotta have the 20x lock sets.

Our 16" RSX wheels barely clear the front calipers on our HRV. I highly doubt any 15" wheels will fit the HRV.
Maybe I'll have a chance to test fit tonight- I'm really curious now that I've been posting about it.

The only recalls that may apply to your HRV are the push button start/stop button and the fuel pump.
Likely both completed long ago.
Thanks, I'll have to get a VIN check done at a dealership and see. It looks like the car was a single owner piece with most maintenance done at dealerships that logged info into databases that Carfax picked up, so recall information should be available too. I didn't see them tracked in the dealership Carfax report though.

Some low cost mods that I did on our used 2016 HRV:

  • deleted the air intake resonator
  • Drop in K&N air filter
  • deleted the exhaust resonator
  • bypass the throttle body coolant heater-
  • larger battery
  • Scangauge OBDII gauges
  • Civic larger engine cover

Next up is an underdrive crankshaft pulley, that no one makes.
I have a leather EX-L steering wheel that I have never installed.



My thread with details on our HRV over the years:

I'll have to read your thread! Thanks!

I'm already looking at the AEM intake, although I'm a little mad that Amazon has it at $250 right now and Camelcamelcamel has the low at $215 just a few weeks back. I'll leather wrap the steering wheel- it's a little worn and the dealer put some weird super thick wheel cover on it that's too large for my wife to wrap her hand around. Stereo parts have all been ordered and most have shown up, so once I return from a work trip the car will get rewired from the battery back on the sound system. Still hunting for a place to hide a subwoofer so it doesn't intrude on the cargo space and the second row seat mechanism.

I'd be very careful with replacement crankshaft pulleys! You don't want to remove/degrade the performance of the balancer element that's part of most factory pulleys. I've seen too many engines die because of underdrive pulleys.
 
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A few folks have posted their results with the HRV AEM air intake.
IMO, it is way overpriced but that's just me.

Just like your used Ford Probe wheels rather than buying Rays Engineering forged JDM wheels.
It's not about spending money on your 4th or 5th vehicle, it's about achieving results!
 

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A few folks have posted their results with the HRV AEM air intake.
IMO, it is way overpriced but that's just me.

Just like your used Ford Probe wheels rather than buying Rays Engineering forged JDM wheels.
It's not about spending money on your 4th or 5th vehicle, it's about achieving results!
I like that the AEM intake is one piece, and simple to install - I'm just waiting for it to be legal for street use ( which may never happen ).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A few folks have posted their results with the HRV AEM air intake.
IMO, it is way overpriced but that's just me.

Just like your used Ford Probe wheels rather than buying Rays Engineering forged JDM wheels.
It's not about spending money on your 4th or 5th vehicle, it's about achieving results!
To be honest, the intake is one thing I've added on almost all my cars, even if the engine was slated to come out or have boost added later. It's a cheap enough modification that pays for itself quickly in gas mileage gains, and it simplifies things in the engine bay quite a bit. The intakes don't add much on the top end, but it's the mid-range on these small displacement engines where they really make a difference because of the restriction removal. I've picked up as much as a 10% gain on the highway on some cars. Granted, we probably drive a bit faster in Texas on the highway than in Canada during the winter (80-90mph is typical traffic mob movement speed), so the engine is always humming in the 4000rpm range. Five to ten percent fuel savings adds up quick when my wife's daily commute is 80 miles, and she's actually able to keep her right foot out of the carpet unlike me!

Using the Probe wheels to save money is because I already have them in the garage... I think the Evo 8 wheels I got for net cost of $60 would look even better than Probe wheels (and weigh less), but I'm scared to sacrifice them to a car that might see curb hits every so often. :D

I like that the AEM intake is one piece, and simple to install - I'm just waiting for it to be legal for street use ( which may never happen ).
I've had good experiences with AEM and K&N intakes- even did a prototype test and writeup for AEM at one point when all the engine swaps were getting popular on the 90s Civics. They both have solid engineering behind them. Are you in California? Since you only have to smog every two years (is it still two years?) you could just revert to stock every time you go in for an inspection. Should take like half an hour if that to put all the OEM hardware back in.
 
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To be honest, the intake is one thing I've added on almost all my cars, even if the engine was slated to come out or have boost added later. It's a cheap enough modification that pays for itself quickly in gas mileage gains, and it simplifies things in the engine bay quite a bit. The intakes don't add much on the top end, but it's the mid-range on these small displacement engines where they really make a difference because of the restriction removal. I've picked up as much as a 10% gain on the highway on some cars. Granted, we probably drive a bit faster in Texas on the highway than in Canada during the winter (80-90mph is typical traffic mob movement speed), so the engine is always humming in the 4000rpm range. Five to ten percent fuel savings adds up quick when my wife's daily commute is 80 miles, and she's actually able to keep her right foot out of the carpet unlike me!

Using the Probe wheels to save money is because I already have them in the garage... I think the Evo 8 wheels I got for net cost of $60 would look even better than Probe wheels (and weigh less), but I'm scared to sacrifice them to a car that might see curb hits every so often. :D



I've had good experiences with AEM and K&N intakes- even did a prototype test and writeup for AEM at one point when all the engine swaps were getting popular on the 90s Civics. They both have solid engineering behind them. Are you in California? Since you only have to smog every two years (is it still two years?) you could just revert to stock every time you go in for an inspection. Should take like half an hour if that to put all the OEM hardware back in.
New York City - i could do that yearly- but don't want to swap all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
New York City - i could do that yearly- but don't want to swap all the time.
I could see that becoming a drag, but I would totally do it! Except in NYC you'd have to find space to store the intake that wasn't in use too, and space is $$$ in NYC. You really have to follow CARB rules in NYC? Just looked it up, NY is a CARB following state. Yuck. Not moving there, sorry. :(
 

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I could see that becoming a drag, but I would totally do it! Except in NYC you'd have to find space to store the intake that wasn't in use too, and space is $$$ in NYC. You really have to follow CARB rules in NYC? Just looked it up, NY is a CARB following state. Yuck. Not moving there, sorry. :(
My inspection is due every end of december - not the best time to tinker under the hood for me (no garage).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My inspection is due every end of december - not the best time to tinker under the hood for me (no garage).
Yeah that would kinda suck, especially with guaranteed winter, working outside, etc... My garage never has room for cars, so I totally get it! I hate working on cars in freezing Texas weather outside, so I'm sure it'd be way worse in NYC. I guess I'd modify the air path internal to the factory piping so it's invisible to an inspector, but the payoff would probably be even less than having a true intake path cleanup. Maybe it's doable? I guess I'll find out once I have the stock intake hardware off the car.
 

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Yeah that would kinda suck, especially with guaranteed winter, working outside, etc... My garage never has room for cars, so I totally get it! I hate working on cars in freezing Texas weather outside, so I'm sure it'd be way worse in NYC. I guess I'd modify the air path internal to the factory piping so it's invisible to an inspector, but the payoff would probably be even less than having a true intake path cleanup. Maybe it's doable? I guess I'll find out once I have the stock intake hardware off the car.
I coudl bump my inpsection up to say September- then every year stick to that cycle.
 

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Where there is a will there is a way....I'm in california and evo's have been targeted for the last couple years....and people are still building engines, tuning and upgrading turbos :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I coudl bump my inpsection up to say September- then every year stick to that cycle.
You should! If that was an option that's what I would do. In Texas the rules changed a few years ago to allow inspection up to 3 months ahead of registration renewal, and both items had also been previously combined onto one windshield sticker.
Where there is a will there is a way....I'm in california and evo's have been targeted for the last couple years....and people are still building engines, tuning and upgrading turbos :)
I can imagine- Evos are so easy to modify. They're quite a bit harder to track though, when you can hide a turbo upgrade inside the original housing and flash the ECU back and forth with open source software.
 
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