Honda HR-V Forum banner
121 - 130 of 130 Posts

·
Registered
2016 HR-V EX
Joined
·
207 Posts
I think he did a typo and meant 6 months.

In another post of his, he wrote:
What these people don't realize or have considered is that a CVT belt/pully system 'shears' the fluid more than does a manual transmission or step-shift transmission because the belt is in constant contact with the pulleys. The belts never get released from contact so they never have the ability to really cool off.

The shearing means a less thick oil film at the belt/pulley interface, hence more wear, which is why I suggest not greater than 30k or 6 month drain and fills. If you purchase a used or off-lease vehicle, have the CVT fluid changed immediately.

Changing regularly also keeps particulate matter at a minimum which might interfere with those pulley actuators.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
So quite the range of miles driven.

Changing the CVT fluid every 3000 miles, once a year, is totally excessive. With that few miles, the CVT oil is no where near worn out or deteriorated.
With that little driving, wearing out the powertrain of your HRV is not a concern. It will last forever!

At the other extreme, 30000miles every 3 or 6 months is a ton of driving. Likely mostly highway miles which is really easy on the engine and trans. The CVT fluid is likely worn out and likely quite dark at 30000miles.
For a transmission and differential, the miles on the fluid are much more of a factor than how old the fluid is.
IMO, short trips and low miles don't wear out or deteriorate drivetrain fluids. Unlike short trips and low miles on engine oil.



Which brings up the type of CVT fluid to use...

Michael, I see that you have gone from Honda CVT fluid, to Amsoil CVT fluid to Redline CVT fluid.
Different fluids can skew the oil analyis readings, you really should stick to one brand of fluid.
Any reason for changing the brand of CVT fluids?

I hate Amsoil products and their mickey mouse selling strategy. I have used Redline manual trans and differential fluids in our cars and truck for many years. It's readily available locally here in every speedshop at a good price.

Honda CVT fluid is now about Cad$25/Litre locally and on Amazon Canada, Redline about Cad$18/L, Valvoline CVT about CAD$12/L on Amazon Canada, Castrol Transmax CVT about CAD$15/L on Amazon Canada.


Valvoline is full synthetic and HCF2 compatible. The Honda stuff is likely just a blend. If it was full synthetic, it would say that on the bottle.

I may have to order some Valvoline up.
The 5 year/100000km/60000miles powertrain warranty expires this summer on our HRV.

For the folks still with warranty, you should only use the Honda CVT fluid to maintain your warranty.


Just my thoughts... Good technical discussion.. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael613

·
Registered
2016 HR-V EX
Joined
·
207 Posts
The main reason for the oil analysis is to make sure the viscosity isn't too thin.

cSt is the unit of measurement used to evaluate viscosity.

One of the labs said cSt at 100C should be between 5.1-7.9.

After 28k km, the viscosity at 100C was 5.1 cSt. After this, I knew it had to be changed more often.

My latest change was after 6 months and 11k km, viscosity at 100C was 5.8 cSt.

New Honda HCF-2 fluid @ 100C is 7.1cSt
New Amsoil CVT @ 100C is also 7.1cSt
New Red Line CVT @ 100C is 7.7cSt

so yes, using different brands can skew the comparisons but all I care about is making sure the range stays between 5.1-7.9cSt

I switched to Red Line CVT because I was also a little fed-up with Amsoil's mickey mouse game. For those who don't know, they offer 25% off of their products if you sign up as a preferred customer. The cost to sign up is only $15 for 6 months and if you stock up, the savings are significant but you need to either stock up or sign up for a full year to benefit from the savings.

Red Line CVT advertises itself as the only CVT fluid with a PAO base (group IV oil)

Calgary HRV is probably correct with his hypothesis that HCF2 is a semi synthetic so I agree with him that once we're out of warranty, we can do better.

Valvoline, Castrol and Amsoil seem to be made from group III (hydrocracked) base oils.

I learned everything I know about oil from bobistheoilguy so I'm in no way as experienced as some of the members there but I'll copy paste this post which explains the advantages of a PAO based oil:
"- Improved oxidation resistance (beneficial for extended drains)
- Unmatched cold temperature performance (PAO contains no wax so doesn't require dosing with PPD's to achieve its low temperature performance/pass testing)

All that said, a PAO-based lube with the same approvals as an HC product likely provides no discernible benefits unless you are routinely starting your engine when it is -40C or have a particularly demanding application for extended drains or highly prone to oxidation."

Since my oil sheared to 5.8cSt in 6 months, I'd like to see if Red Line CVT can keep it thicker for longer. I think it will thanks to the PAO base.

$20CAD/quart was the best I could find and it came with free shipping when you order 5.
Perry Auto Laval if any other Canadians are interested

So after evaluating all the info, it seems like changing the fluid more often is more important than deciding which brand of fluid should be used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Thanks for the detailed response.

I try not to spend too much time on www.bobistheoilguy.com . And I'm certainly no expert either. :)

You are quite right, most name brand "synthetic" oils are not true synthetic.
I would choose Redline over Amsoil every time but they are both excellent true synthetic oils.
And most likely Valvoline and Castrol are not true synthetic oils.

IMO, if your HRV is under warranty, using Honda CVT fluid is critical. If your CVT failed and Honda found out you had non-Honda CVT fluid in it, your Honda warranty could be in jeopardy.

My other thought is that there is no proof that changing your CVT fluid (even at really short intervals) will prevent your CVT trans from a failure.
We don't know what the failures actually are. What the causes are. We don't even know the failure rate.
The CVT trans in our HRV runs hot (200+F degrees) fully loaded up a mountain in the winter.
Is that normal temps for the Honda CVT? Is heat causing the failures? We don't know that either at this point.

We are just hoping that keeping clean CVT fluid in the trans will prevent a failure.

I'm not even sure I buy the "CVT transmission shears fluid more than other transmission types".
I need more info to back up that statement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SlowFosho

·
Registered
2016 HR-V EX
Joined
·
207 Posts
I'm not even sure I buy the "CVT transmission shears fluid more than other transmission types".
I need more info to back up that statement.
I compared my cvt analysis to one with an automatic transmission and it was enough to convince me that he's right.

Here's an analysis of the ZF 6 speed auto found in many BMWs, Fords, Land Rover and other brands.

Brand new oil has a cSt of 5.6 @ 100c.

After 12 years and 120k miles, the lab found it to have a cSt of 5.52 @ 100C.

In the analysis thread, they say it's a good idea to change it every 30k to "minimize varnish buildup on solenoid valves, a major cause of sticking and failure."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
It's a closed tranmission. So if we fill in the fluid until it comes out of the fill hole, the fluid level is sufficient.
There are two fill holes. The "check" hole in the transmission is the normal one. There is also one in the very top of the transmission. I really don't think you want to fill this one until it overflows.
By the way, all transmissions are closed. Some of them have dipsticks but they are all closed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Over here in Malaysia, Honda Malaysia requires the CVT fluid to be changed at 40,000km or 2 year intervals whichever comes first.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Over here in Malaysia, Honda Malaysia requires the CVT fluid to be changed at 40,000km or 2 year intervals whichever comes first.

I only change my CVT at the required intervals when I have normal driving conditions. However, if I've been in heavy stop and go traffic or I've driving in rough and hilly terrain (lots of it where I live), I will change it more frequently.
The same goes for my rear diff fluid in my AWD Honda's (older CR-V, Element and 2016 HR-V) which all require the Honda Dual Pump II fluid. The fluid is light viscosity and there are only 1.5 quarts, so it's delicate when compared to other differentials. Again, cheap insurance. I live in mountain terrain with hot summers and snowy winters. My home is on top of a steep hill. AWD is a necessity for me.
 

·
Registered
2018 Honda Hrv EX
Joined
·
35 Posts
Just read this whole thread as I prepare to change my transmission fluid this week. Dealership wants $200 just for transmission oil swap lol so you bet your ass I’m doing my fluid maintenance myself from here on out. This was all super informative
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Just read this whole thread as I prepare to change my transmission fluid this week. Dealership wants $200 just for transmission oil swap lol so you bet your ass I’m doing my fluid maintenance myself from here on out. This was all super informative
I've found that forum information combined with YouTube videos have given me enough confidence to do my own jobs and save thousands of dollars over the years. Just be sure to compare all of the sources before you dive in. Also, I've accumulated a lot of great tools in that time which have made my life much easier. A couple of Rhino ramps, a good rolling floor jack and stationary jack stands are good ones to start with. Fortunately, I have a couple of places which will take old fluids, transmission, motor oil and coolant.
 
121 - 130 of 130 Posts
Top